Episode 18: Trade Stocks and Bonds With Crypto. Profit in Crypto.

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This time I am meeting Ivan Gowan, who is the founder and CEO of Currency.com. This is the first regulated tokenized securities exchange which allows crypto holders to get price exposure to more than 1000 securities such as Apple, Facebook, and Telsa stock, governmental bonds, and industry indices like the S&P500 and the DAX.

Ivan explains in detail how Currency.com work, why the company based its operations in Belarus, what are its most sought investment products, why they are determined to move to a completely decentralized trading engine and much more.

Ivan’s Contact:

Full Episode Transcript

(00:02) George Manolov:

This is the Borderless Crypto Podcast.

(00:14) George Manolov:

Hello everyone. I’m your host George Manolov, and in the series; I bring you exceptional entrepreneurs, investors, hustlers and thought leaders from the cryptocurrency and fintech space.

This time I meet Ivan Gowan who’s the founder and CEO of Currency.com. This is the first regulated tokenized securities exchange which allows crypto holders to get price exposure to more than thousand securities such as Apple, Facebook and Tesla stocks, government bonds and industry indexes like the S&P 500 and the DAX.

Ivan explains in detail how Currency.com works, why the company based its operations in Belarus, why they’re determined to move to a completely decentralized trading engine and much more. It was a pleasure having this conversation and I hope you enjoy it as well.

Please note that anything that I or my guests say in these talks is for informational purposes only and should not be treated as investment advice. Although during daylight, I’m part of the team behind the crypto lending platform Nexo. At night when I do these talks, I share only my personal thoughts, which in no way represent Nexo’s opinions.

Now, it’s time to get the podcast started in three, two, one.

(01:49) George Manolov:

All right, let’s get started. Before we jump deeper into Currency.com, I would be curious to learn a little more about your background because I’ve seen that you have a very extensive background in computer science and in the fintech space. Could you please share; how did you get in fintech? What have you done so far before entering the cryptocurrency industry?

(02:10) Ivan Gowan:

Sure. I spent 15 years in technology at a global market leader called IG, FTSE 250 listed now, I ran their technology platform for more than a decade and built trading apps for high-value clients and a range of retail clients as well. I joined Capital.com in January, 2018 as CEO, then we launched Currency.com as a company in the middle of last year, we started on the built and then launched to the public on the 15th of January, 2019.

(02:46) George Manolov:

Can you give us a little background on that; what did you do in IG? And afterwards tell us what is Capital.com?

(02:54) Ivan Gowan:

Sure. IG has been around for 45 years, it started off as a company that allowed you to spread bet on the market in the UK, that’s trading with leverage. I helped build their first online web trading platform as a developer and fairly quickly moved into managerial positions, running the development team, focusing on the trading platforms and later running IT development for the wider organization. I ended up with hundreds of developers spread across multiple locations and always stayed close to the products and the clients’ needs; looking at the feedback, iterating and innovating. We did some very interesting things being on the keynote of the Apple Watch launch with the first watch app where you could buy and sell shares. I’ve always stayed pretty close to the cutting edge, so when mobile came along, we had mobile trading platforms right at the beginning before people’s data rates were ready for them.

If we’re honest, we waited for the infrastructure and the devices capabilities; the battery power and the bandwidth, to catch up with the platforms that we are providing. We were catering for some of the extremely wealthy private individuals that wanted to speculate in the markets. With a demanding client base and a lot of expectations of latency, quality of execution, reliability as well as UX. We were agile before agile was really coined as a term, and we were releasing every weekend. We are fortunate to have a few people that really thought long and hard about the customer experience and how to design for the end user, and I spent a lot of time and effort in the detail of crafting great experiences for clients, and that was a large part of our success.

With Capital, we’re building on all of that experience, we’ve got a very experienced team, some of whom worked for me before. We set out with a mobile-first offering, very focused on the customer experience, making sure of simple little things like being able to use the platform without having to use two hands on your mobile device, not having to over stretch to the top left corner to go back in the app and doing auto complete of emails to make it easier for people to fill out all their information when signing up. I could give you a list of a hundred more small UX details that we’ve built into the product that cumulatively add up to what feels like a great experience.

It’s often the case that with great UX, you actually can’t put your finger on a single silver bullet. It’s not one thing, it’s lots of little details that all work and make it feel a pleasure to use. That’s the core of what we do. It’s really about valuing our clients’ time and creating an experience that’s a pleasure to use and really helps them achieve their goals quickly and easily.

(05:45) George Manolov:

Absolutely. As I did my background trading on Currency.com, obviously there’s a very solid connection between Currency.com and Capital.com, so at what point did you decide that Currency.com is the point where people can use their crypto to get access to securities, you explain what exactly this means in a moment, but what made you enter the space of cryptocurrencies? At what point did you decide that there is a need and a market demand for such a service for people into crypto to get access to assets that are not crypto native?

(06:23) Ivan Gowan:

I’ve been interested in crypto for a long time. We were looking for ways in which we could use our expertise and bring something of value to a wide audience. Coming from a background of always working in traditional financial markets, regulated by the world’s biggest regulators globally, it was natural for us to be cautious about onboarding processes and the things that you expect within regulated financial services around money laundering and knowing who you’re dealing with; knowing your client. I think a lot of early exchanges didn’t come from that financial background, and we’re seeing the US regulators in particular being quite assertive with some exchanges who haven’t taken any steps to really identify who their clients are or where their funds have come from.

From our point of view, it was important to not jump the gun and to create an offering that was within some form of regulation. So, we were very close to the emerging regulation that was being talked about and is still not finalized in Switzerland, and obviously familiar with all the work being done in Gibraltar that’s been going on for a number of years, then the work being done in Malta and other jurisdictions. It was really clear that you have two different approaches being taken with the bigger financial areas like London, Switzerland, Singapore and Japan taking a stance that says we want to encourage innovation, but maybe not providing the clarity that someone like us thrive for; in terms of knowing that you’re operating within the boundaries of expectations of regulators.

An important step for us was setting up in such a way that we would be regulated and we would feel comfortable in the way that we’re operating. Then, when you put that together with the Crypto Winter of 2018, it no longer made sense to launch another crypto exchange that was the same as the 300 that have already been created.

It was then when we said: we’ve got lots of crypto investors who are long-term believers in crypto, how do we help broader adoption of crypto and a broader integration of crypto into financial markets, and how do we give people, who have learned to invest in crypto and trade crypto, some other interesting trading opportunities without them having to come out of crypto entirely and go through fiat and traditional brokers. So, that was an opportunity in the niche.

We’re also very aware of the longer term trend of increased regulation and increased established financial players getting excited about Blockchain technology and its powers, and we’ve all seen the U-turn that some of the big companies have made in the stance and opinion, a lot of that stemmed, for me, from the December, 2017 listing of Bitcoin futures contracts and that opened it up to much more institutional money.

(09:31) George Manolov:

All right. So, it took you some time to find out a niche where you can also launch something that is regulated. Eventually, you came up with the concept of Currency.com where you are allowing people from really anywhere in the world, I imagine, to get price exposure to assets such as the stocks of Tesla, Apple and all kinds of public companies, as well as government bonds, which you mentioned in our conversation prior to this, without leaving the crypto space, is that correct?

(10:06) Ivan Gowan:

Yeah, we allow people to bring their assets into Currency.com, and that could be traditional currencies like Dollars or Euros, or it could be cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, Ethereum and Litecoin. Once you have those base assets in the platform, you can use those to invest in other assets.

We facilitate a number of different things you can invest in, and all of the things that you can invest in are then tokenized forms of the underlying securities. So, you can directly invest in gold contracts, and those gold contracts are tokenized on the Blockchain, they are ERC20 compatible tokens. Similarly, you can use your Bitcoin to invest in Facebook shares, Tesla shares or the shares when they are listed during their IPO event.

(11:02) George Manolov:

What exactly do I as a user get when I buy this share? I don’t get the share; I get a tokenized version of a share or of what?

(11:13) Ivan Gowan:

Correct. Going back to the partnership between Currency.com and Capital.com. Let’s talk about a concrete example; if you go to Currency.com to buy Apple shares, you’d be buying a tokenized form of the Apple share. The price is made by Capital.com as a market maker and it’s directly linked to the underlying asset. So, it’s not a form of independent price discovery, it’s a secondary market for trading Apple shares; Currency.com will buy that asset on your behalf with Capital.com, Capital.com will then store that asset for you, and you are issued, by Currency.com, a token that represents the underlying asset, Currency.com is then obliged to buy that token back at whatever price in the future when you decide to sell it.

(12:15) George Manolov:

I see. So, for every tokenized Apple share that I buy, there is a real Apple share that Capital.com holds for me.

(12:26) Ivan Gowan:

Correct. Capital.com is licensed under MiFID regulation, and regulated by CySEC in Cyprus and the FCA in London. Technically, what you’re buying is a CFD and Capital.com then holds that on behalf of Currency.com

(12:42) George Manolov:

Okay. What can I do with that token that I buy? I Imagine at this point that I cannot trade it on other places, or can I?

(12:51) Ivan Gowan:

At the moment the tokens aren’t interchangeable with other exchanges. It remains to be seen how this sector evolves and how the interoperability of tokenized securities evolves. Right now, what you can do is that you can withdraw it to your own ERC20 compatible wallet or offline storage, or you can leave it in custody on the platform and then you can sell it back. The platform will value your assets and show you how they’re changing over time, we’ve got very sophisticated charts to study the market and what’s happening. Then, when you go to sell that asset, you can realize your profits in crypto currency or in fiat.

(13:34) George Manolov:

What has been the reception so far from the crypto community? Because your product is mostly targeted towards, I imagine, retail investors, correct?

(13:43) Ivan Gowan:


(13:44) George Manolov:

So, where do most of your users come from?

(13:48) Ivan Gowan:

We have a very broad range of users that have onboarded with us, in terms of countries they’ve come from. We don’t onboard from the US, but outside of the US, we onboard from most countries. Given that the regulation that we’re governed under is in Belarus, we’ve seen huge take up in the CIS countries; so, in all of the surrounding countries such as Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, Lithuania, and all of the other countries significantly. But we’ve had a lot of users outside of the CIS region as well. We’re at a fairly early stage, but take up has been really strong, and in the last couple of months, we’ve seen exponential growth on all our key metrics.

(14:28) George Manolov:

What are they most interested in? Because I saw that you offer a really huge variety, how many types of securities can people essentially buy?

(14:41) Ivan Gowan:

Right now, it’s more than a thousand. We initially launched with a 150, so we’re ramping up the number of assets rapidly in response to user feedback. I guess somewhat surprisingly for us, it has been the concentration of Bitcoin. Going back to the point that we were talking about earlier, in terms of the resurgence of Bitcoin since April, it’s not surprising that there’s a huge amount of interest in Bitcoin again. But we’ve seen huge amounts of interest in Bitcoin to US dollar as the primary instrument of people trading on the platform.

(15:17) George Manolov:

In terms of stocks, bonds or other types of security instruments that you’re offering, are there certain companies’ shares that stand out or is there no clear data on this?

(15:30) Ivan Gowan:

The big IPOs that we’ve featured were very popular, on the day of launch people get very excited about a new market in which they can trade and the early price discovery that comes with that. Tesla has been very volatile, up and down, and that attracts traders who want to take either side of that market. Apple & Facebook are particularly very popular over-earnings. It’s always concentrated in the biggest markets and the most popular international brands and companies, so, you do get a bit of concentration. We also see a fair bit of interest in gold as there’s been a bit of a run up in the gold price over the similar period of Bitcoin.

(16:16) George Manolov:

Another question I had now that we’re talking about company shares; many, if not all, of the biggest companies at some points in time, they paid out dividends. So, are people in some way entitled to dividends when they purchase securities via Currency.com?

(16:32) Ivan Gowan:

Absolutely. We’ve implemented corporate actions, so you’re entitled to all of the economic benefits of the underlying share. If Apple announces its dividend and it’s going to pay a 3% yield, then you would receive that entitlement in dollars as a credit to your account.

(16:52) George Manolov:

That’s pretty cool. I guess that the only difference from a real share is that you cannot really vote share.

(17:01) Ivan Gowan:

All right.

(17:02) George Manolov:

Honestly, when we think about it, I don’t know if this is something that people care about. What’s your thought on this?

(17:10) Ivan Gowan:

I’ve owned shares in many companies and I’ve never voted. Right. For activist investors who want to take over companies, voting is a really important facet of taking a share in a company. While for the vast majority of retail investors, voting is a thing that attracts a bit of discussion within the world of tokenizing securities, but it’s not a material consideration for a lot of investors.

(17:39) George Manolov:

Right, it’s one of those things where on the one hand, some people don’t care. On the other hand people want to have a right to vote for the sake of having it, but when you have it, people just don’t exercise it because if you want to vote on any company’s share or a token with voting rights, I imagine it will really take a lot of your time to vote and you would only do it if you have a really, really very large material interest, and if you think that your vote matters at all.

(17:50) Ivan Gowan:

Yes, I agree. And to know the company well enough to know whether decision A or B is going to be really meaningful for the company’s future, you really need to do a huge amount of research and be very close to that company.

(18:25) George Manolov:

Yeah, absolutely. That’s why we don’t really care about voting rights at this point and most investors don’t. You mentioned that since most of your user base is from the CIS region and you’re regulated in Belarus, this is something that I would like to learn more about because, at least so far, I haven’t really come across Belarus as a crypto friendly country, or am I wrong? Why did you decide to base your operations there?

(18:53) Ivan Gowan:

For two reasons. One; we already had a big IT team in Belarus. Belarus has had a very friendly environment for IT companies for a long time, and they have a body here that overseas and governs the regulations under which technology companies can operate within Belarus, it’s called the Hi-Tech Park. Back in 2017, the Hi-Tech Park set about creating a new set of regulations to go further into enabling technology companies to move more into being product companies than delivery organizations or outsourcing technology companies.

They created some wide legislation that looked at cryptocurrencies, crypto exchanges and tokenizing of securities. Because it is a fairly small country without too much in the way of financial regulation and trading background, they took a bolder decision in some of the bigger financial centers to create ad hoc specific legislation for this emerging new technology stack. So, they’ve created some legislation that is very specific to Blockchain. They haven’t tried to fit a round peg in a square hole. They’ve said: we know that old securities law is not appropriate for this new asset type, so let’s create something innovative and new.

We have an office in Gibraltar and we’re working closely with regulators on launching a product there, but it was clear that the European regulation under oversight of ESMA and MiFID was going to take a lot longer to evolve and establish how they want to regulate tokenized securities.

We had a platform that was going to be ready at the beginning of the year, so a significant consideration for us was where could we get it authorized and overseen, and what was realistic. We could see by the velocity of change and knowing how complicated it is when you’ve got so many interested parties and very big established companies interested in how those regulations will evolve and mature in somewhere like London or Switzerland, that we were going to be ready well before one of those bigger countries was going to be ready to authorize us. So, that was definitely a significant part in the decision to go with the Belarus regulation.

Now, you’re seeing lots of countries ask questions about cryptocurrency and Blockchain post Facebook’s Libra announcement. I think people are suddenly realizing this is going to be a really big thing and it’s not just a really small cryptocurrency, enthusiastic community that need to be concerned with cryptocurrencies and engage with them. This is going to go to a very mass market and be a very big part of our future. The Facebook Libra project is helping to accelerate the understanding of governments and regulators globally. It won’t be without its challenges for sure, but I think it will definitely help the wider crypto community to get governments to get on top of what they need to be doing to protect users, to protect their people from scams, understand risks involved, and make sure that they’re being catered for.

For us, we were going to be ready, so where can we get regulated quickly and use that as a launchpad to get live. Often with these really big innovations, you don’t know where this thing will go. We’ve got something new here, it’s really interesting and I think a lot of countries are now very quickly trying to play catch up and trying to define their own regulations for governing cryptocurrency, crypto exchanges and tokenized securities.

The world of securities is way bigger than cryptocurrencies. Things that could be tokenized in 5 years’ time would be measured in the hundreds of billions and probably trillions, in terms of valuation of what could be put on the Blockchain. This is a really exciting point in the journey to wider adoption and the emergence of trillions moving to the Blockchain.

(23:23) George Manolov:

It’s very interesting to me that small countries like Belarus and all the others that you mentioned are essentially positioning themselves to benefit from this regulatory arbitrage in a way. How do you look at the risks of basing your business in Belarus? Do think there are substantial risks there because it’s a country which is not part of the European Union after all? The initial perception of a person would be not to really build a business off of there.

(23:53) Ivan Gowan:

Yeah, I think there are always issues of perception and so on. If you look back at Coinbase’s early beginnings, I remember my experience of transferring money to an Estonian bank and I thought it was unusual. The legislation that passed is very strict on KYC and Blockchain AML, and is fully compliant with FATF regulations, which is quite advanced. It means that we’ve got great systems that are live, bringing in revenue, getting our brand out there and providing a very valuable service to customers. As other jurisdictions establish the regulations and provide clarity for businesses like ours that want to do things properly, we’ll be really happy to expand into other jurisdictions under local legislation. We feel better about launching now, getting the product live and providing a valuable service to our customers rather than wait for another year or two to be able to operate under European legislation.

(25:03) George Manolov:

That makes total sense and I absolutely agree with that. If you have to wait for legislators, that’s not the right thing to do. Move fast as Mark Zuckerberg says. So, what’s next for Currency.com? I’ve seen that your long-term vision is something that is very interesting for me which is to essentially transition into decentralized trading, correct?

(25:25) Ivan Gowan:

When we built the technology stack; obviously price discovery, reliable execution and things that are often talked about amongst the trading community. I’m sure we’ve all experienced problems when we’ve tried to trade and get our trade executed, when it hasn’t been executed for some reason. For us, that’s a really crucial part of the value that an exchange brings. If you want to trade, you want to trade reliably and you want to know that the money that you’re investing can be realized, liquidated and accessed reliably and easily whenever you want.

So, when we were evaluating the core of the matching engine and what technology to use, it was clear to us that the Blockchain community are addressing some of the scalability and throughput issues that have been highlighted. At the time, there was a big noise about CryptoKitties bringing down Ethereum. For us, it was about how to create something as integrated with the Blockchain as it can be, and that was the asset that you bought which ends up on the Blockchain.

As we see the ability to not have your assets on the exchange in order to trade on the exchange with centralized price discovery, that’s probably the next step that will be emerging over the coming year or two, where you know your Bitcoin can sit in your own private wallet, but it will be locked while you’re using that to trade on an exchange, then when your exchange trade settles, that Bitcoin will be transferred at the time that settlement is required. I think that would probably be the next stage of moving towards a more decentralized model of engaging and trading.

(27:17) George Manolov:

That would probably involve a ton of work from you. It probably means that you would have to rebuild your trading engine from the ground up.

(27:27) Ivan Gowan:

Yeah, parts of the matching engine and settlement for sure.

(27:30) George Manolov:

It’s very intriguing for me to see that people from traditional backgrounds understand and come up with their own vision as to how they can leverage the Blockchain to deliver more robust experiences when it comes to trading or other types of activities that have so far been done just on servers. That would definitely be super interesting to follow.

(27:51) Ivan Gowan:

We’re seeing other exchanges look at this area as well, I don’t think we’re isolated in looking at this, this is a broader general trend. The other really interesting thing where we’re making a difference is the UX side, particularly the mobile trading side. A frustration of mine has been the lack of good support for mobile trading on a lot of crypto exchanges, which is really surprising because it’s a very tech centric innovation. We’ve all been saying mobile first for the last 15 years, but the crypto world somehow hasn’t gone mobile first, and a lot of exchanges see 50%, 60% or 70% of their volumes come from desktop, which is quite strange. We’ve invested a huge amount in the mobile app experience, and have had some great positive feedback from clients. So, that’s a great thing to bring to the community of people who want to invest in trade.

(28:52) George Manolov:

Absolutely. I myself have thought many times about numerous crypto products, particularly exchanges not having a decent mobile app, most of them don’t even have a mobile app at all. It’s really strange for 2019, but I guess that will change. Once people like you and companies like yours do this, at some point, others will have it as well. Ivan, what’s your personal view on Bitcoin, Ether and the crypto currency space in general? How do you compare them to traditional finance? Are Bitcoin, Ether or other crypto assets part of your personal portfolio?

(29:31) Ivan Gowan:

I invested in crypto is a little while ago. Not in a big way, I’m much more of a hobbyist investor than a very serious investor in the crypto. I’m fascinated by what has been brought into being and encapsulated by Bitcoin. The idea of a decentralized money system that isn’t issued by a government or overseen by a government or a corporation is extremely novel. If you go back over the history of money and trade, at one point in our past when paper money was brought in to play, people thought that was crazy, a step way too far and didn’t represent anything of real value.

Actually, the differences aren’t that significant, I think we’re still at that stage of broader adoption and understanding. You’ve still got a lot of skeptics in the market against the Bitcoin and Ether. You see that in lots of areas where people still talk about the entire blockchain sphere of assets as cryptocurrencies, and of course they’re not. Okay. Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency, but there are lots of things that represent other things and they’re not currencies. We’re still in this very broad level of emergence, and this is a technology that’s been around for 10 years, not 30.

Over the next 5 years, you’re going to see a lot of the really big challenges overcome. This will be led by Blockchain enthusiasts and pioneers. We’re really keen to engage with that community and help the technology evolve and participate in its broader adoption by providing people with opportunities where Bitcoin is treated as a first-class currency, which you can use to invest in other assets and move those assets back into Bitcoin.

That’s our role in trying to help broader adoption. People will no longer need to sell their Bitcoin or move their Bitcoin from one exchange that doesn’t have a fiat gateway to another where they do have a fiat gateway, pay a commission, exchange it for Fiat, try to withdraw that fiat, move that fiat from their bank account into their brokerage account and then buy an Apple share. We’re reducing that to 2 clicks of a button. It’s a pretty good achievement and that’s something we’re bringing to the party that we’re really excited about. Hopefully, that will help the broader adoption and wider acceptance of Bitcoin and Ether.

Interestingly, we’re seeing a lot of companies approaching us saying: our auditors and our accountants want to operate with someone who is regulated and who gives us the comfort of being a well set up a well-run company, because our auditors won’t let us trade our Bitcoin or hold Bitcoin on our balance sheet because we bought it from somewhere where we don’t know the source and we’re not comfortable with where it might’ve come from. We’re now seeing a lot of partners who are keen to talk to us about levels of integration. Hopefully, that can help broaden the use of Bitcoin and help in its wider adoption.

(32:37) George Manolov:

I absolutely resonate with what you’re saying. Once you have been in the crypto world and have experienced the ease and the speed with which you can transact between different crypto assets, it’s very hard for me to see anyone who might actually buy stocks the old way through this long a pathway that you described yourself. A final question I have on this part of Currency.com is, do you think that we would reach a moment where Tesla, or obviously any other company, would tokenize its own stock and then people would, via your platform, buy direct stocks of Tesla.

(33:26) Ivan Gowan:

In traditional financial markets, the ways in which retail investors can get access to the capital markets and invest tend to be through an equity of companies buying shares that pay a dividend or in corporate bonds. But the tokenization of securities opens up more interesting innovative business models that could emerge where holders of a tokenized chair could be entitled to more than just a future dividend, they might get special privileges within the platform or within whatever product or service that customer is providing to their clients. If you look at what’s emerged in Dapps and utility tokens with the capabilities that you can have and the levels of innovation that can be provided, I think those are very broad ranges of where this might head in the future.

It will be very natural for us to develop our capability to enable people of primary listing on our exchange, but that’s not our top priority right now. We’re catering for the part of the market that wants reliable investments. We’re not really in that market that was dominated by ICOs, we’ve all been burned a little bit by investing in an ICO that never really committed any code to a GitHub project and it was just a website that looked great. So, we’re staying quite away from that side of the market, although there are of course lots of people interested in that part of the market. I think angel investing platforms, crowdfunding platforms, will move into tokenizing securities, IEOs and things like that, and that will be another big growth area, but that’s not our main focus right now.

(35:31) George Manolov:

So, if our listeners want to come and buy some Apple stocks or one of the other thousand assets that are represented on Currency.com, how can they do that?

(35:44) Ivan Gowan:

You just go to “Currency.com” and sign up. You need your passport and you’ll be asked for your ID information and that’s it. If you’re on a mobile device, type “currency.com” and download the app, the application process takes less than 5 minutes and then it’s down to you and what you want to buy. If you’ve got Bitcoin already, go into the app and go to the Wallet section, then you make a deposit of your Bitcoin, you’ll be presented with a wallet address, you then go into wherever you stored your Bitcoin and transfer that Bitcoin into your Currency.com wallet where it will show up on your account. You’ve got full visibility of the inflight blockchain transaction, so you can see those as they’re in progress. You’ll see what you’re holding on the platform and then you can pick whichever assets you’d like to invest in. We’ve got really sophisticated charts that start off very simple, but there’s a lot of power there that you can access if you’re interested in more of the technical analysis and price action for timing or investments. It doesn’t take more than 5 minutes to get you started and buying your first tokenized Apple share.

(36:52) George Manolov:

Awesome. All right Ivan, thank you very much for your time.

(36:56) Ivan Gowan:

Thank you very much, George. It was a really good talk.

(37:02) George Manolov:

A couple of things before you take off. First, if you enjoyed this episode, be generous and share it with your best friends. They deserve it, they will appreciate it and they will be grateful to you.

Second, I want to draw your attention to Nexo, without which this episode wouldn’t be possible. If you’re like me and you believe the long-term value of crypto will grow, then Nexo might be a useful tool for you. The company allows you to get instant access to cash in 45 feet currencies without selling your Bitcoin, Ether or other crypto assets. In case you don’t need a cash loan, Nexo can also guarantee you a passive income of 8% per year on your stablecoins, Euros, US dollars, and British pounds. What’s more, interest is paid on a daily basis, meaning that you can add or withdraw funds to your interest earning account at any time. You should know that the level of automation, convenience and flexibility that Nexo provides are vastly superior to what any other similar services offer. This is the reason why I myself joined the Nexo team. Having said that, none of this is investment advice, I just genuinely believe that these services might be useful for you. You can explore more at “Nexo.io”.

Finally, if you have any suggestions, feedback or anything you want to tell me, you can find me on Twitter at “@BorderlessBTC”, or on my website “Borderlesscrypto.com”. Thanks for tuning in and I’ll see you again soon.

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